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How to develop a team you love! Creating culture for your company with Matt Shoup

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Colorado Small Enterprise Coach, Keynote Motivational Speaker – Matt Shoup


Matt Shoup is a family man, serial entrepreneur, philanthropist, realtor, speaker, writer, coach, Spain aficionado, lover of travel and a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu brown belt.

He has launched and efficiently grown 6 corporations since 2005. The widespread denominator in in these corporations’ success has been via the leadership of the individuals round him in these corporations.

Matt is the founder of Leadership Jiu-Jitsu, which is the end result of his entrepreneurial life’s work. He implements this program throughout all of his corporations in addition to installs and implements this to different corporations all over the world.

Episode Highlights:

  • Ideas and tips in building a constructive tradition for a small staff
  • Secrets and techniques of leadership jiu-jitsu (and why it is very important corporations)
  • The way to decide if a workforce member is culturally match for the group or not
  • Study one of the best methods to speak together with your staff

Connect with Matt:


Web site:


Simon Sinek Ted speak – Why Good Leaders Make You Feel Protected!

Transcript: Download

Video Transcription offered by GMR Transcription Providers.

Jaime Masters: Welcome to Eventual Millionaire. I am Jaime Masters, and I am so excited to have my good good friend, Matt Shoup, back on the show. Now for some cause, I assumed we already had him back on the present like two or 3 times just because I really feel like I know him so much. You possibly can verify him out at He’s a serial entrepreneur, has had six companies that he’s started and grown. Thanks so much for approaching the present immediately.

Matt Shoup: Thanks for having me back. It’s good to see you again. It’s been like four or 5 years, I feel. It’s been some time.

Jaime Masters: I only realized that I didn’t have you again on if you informed me. You’re like, “No, you stated I was gonna come back on, and you by no means invited me.” I was like, “Oh, properly then.”

Matt Shoup: Yeah, we have been on a random telephone call about something else. I couldn’t keep in mind what it was. We have been speaking about youngsters’ faculties, I feel is what it was, and we realized that, and then we acquired this set up fairly fast. No, it’s an honor to be back on, so thank you.

Jaime Masters: No, I really respect it, especially from the trajectory of what you’ve been doing from earlier than since you have been doing M&E Portray. You have been doing all types of several types of businesses than what you’re doing proper now. Now you’re doing more leadership improvement. You’ve got a jujitsu apply, and everyone knows that I really like that. Can you type of take me to date?

Matt Shoup: Yeah, so from once we talked 4 or 5 years in the past, I used to be in a very fascinating transition. I had grown M&E Portray to some extent the place I noticed I was the bottleneck. I used to be really great on the sales, actually nice on the advertising, however it all stopped proper there. Truly I sucked. I was not good at creating individuals, and I had this big revolving door of people popping out, they usually’d stay a sure period of time, and I didn’t like how fast they have been leaving. I stated, “What is that this? What’s improper with them?” and any person was like, “Hey, do you ever assume it may be your leadership, and it sort of stinks?”

Once we talked, I used to be actually simply, I really feel like, virtually starting this journey of making an attempt to figure out, and I noticed that enterprise is more than simply the P&Ls and the numbers and the sales. Return and watch our first interview; we talked about a variety of that, and I went again and looked at it, and I just was not focusing on the individuals. There’s a lot more to enterprise than the enterprise aspect. You’re touching individuals’s lives. You’re feeding families. I’m taking a look at simply M&E Painting, on the ground degree, what number of families we influence each day and I stated, “Man, if we would like this to develop and maintain, A.) I have to spend money on these individuals, and then B.) I’m that ADD serial entrepreneur,” and I had all these different little ventures popping up. I stated, “To no matter diploma and capacity I’m going to spend money on the individuals in the painting firm, the same factor needs to occur at 10 occasions the velocity and influence that it had. It took me virtually 15 years to determine the painting firm,” so that’s how all these things has been rising.

It’s been a fun journey. I simply pour into individuals daily and make their lives higher and see what their goals and their visions are. Clearly, yeah, we’ve work to do and enterprise to shut and jujitsu to show and actual property to promote, however I simply get to hang around with fun individuals all day.

Jaime Masters: It’s actually impressive that you simply didn’t just say, “Oh, it’s the business I’m in,” for the portray business because normally whenever you take a look at the employees, that’s what everyone goes to. They’re like, “Nicely, that’s just the best way it’s.” As an alternative, you took duty as an alternative. How did you truly improve that? Usually tradition is like for giant corporations, right? Once I speak about tradition, they’re like, “I only have a very small workforce. How does this work for me?” So what would you say to that?

Matt Shoup: You hear culture rather a lot, and it may be sort of a buzzword in case you actually don’t look into what it’s. I keep in mind a great good friend of mine, he runs a competing painting company in one other market, but he stated years ago, “You’re within the driver’s seat of the culture of your organization.” If it’s simply you, you’ve a tradition at your organization. Should you’re a solopreneur, the best way that that firm presents itself to your vendors, to your shopper base, and you then start growing a staff, the best way that that workforce interacts and simply exhibits as much as life, that’s your tradition.

The core values that your company has, these stream by means of and run by means of your organization. It’s not only for these massive 1,000-employee that have these campuses. And it’s additionally not considered one of this stuff the place you’re sitting around bouncing up and down on the beanbag chairs and the bouncy ball chairs all day.

Jaime Masters: Proper? I know. “And we’ve extras. That’s what makes culture. It’s awesome.” No, no.
Matt Shoup: Yeah, we now have the snack machine and the bouncy ball chairs. However it actually is any chief of any group, enterprise, nonprofit, whatever the trigger is, it really is in the driver’s seat of the chief to develop that culture and appeal to those that fit with that after which help individuals exit that aren’t a great fit, assist them understand that not everyone is gonna suit your tradition, and that’s okay. Don’t be offended or rubbed fallacious by that.

Jaime Masters: I really like that you simply stated that too. Let’s get into a few of the nitty gritty. As a result of it’s referred to as leadership jujitsu, how do you go from a white belt to a black belt? Particularly in the event you’re like, “Oh, I’m not great at this. Thanks, Matt. I simply realized you’re proper. It may be a me drawback greater than an everyone else drawback.”

Matt Shoup: I just learn a e-book, The Huge Leap, by Homosexual Hendricks.

Jaime Masters: I simply had Homosexual on. He’s popping out shortly after yours. That’s funny.

Matt Shoup: I liked the ebook and beloved his stuff. However you take a look at four buckets or levels that he talked about. In any martial art, anyone that’s watching this that research a martial artwork, you are available on your first jujitsu, judo, karate, whatever it’s that you simply’re learning, you probably did some MMA at that white belt beginner degree, you don’t know what you don’t know. You don’t know anything. You’re utterly incompetent. But at the least you understand that you simply’re incompetent. You already know, so you’re gonna have this trajectory of, wow; I went from figuring out nothing to having a reasonably good foundation. That’s simply the journey.

In my leadership, I stated, “I’m good at the business, but I’m not good on the individuals, creating the relationships.” For me, it was taking someone’s private life aside from the business and saying, “How does this enterprise, and your position inside this enterprise, actually affect you personally, and how does this hit on your greater visions for your family and your future?” However yeah, the white belt to black belt is you simply get out there and spend 10,00Zero hours.

I’ve spent 12 years working towards jujitsu myself. I’m a brown belt. I’ve been a brown belt for a few years. I’m not even a black belt. However I really feel like the individuals I converse to that get to that point where they’ve actually received it hitting on all cylinders, they usually’ve gone from incompetence to competence and then that degree of fantastic when you’ll be able to just do it free flowing, there’s still that degree that’s, I really feel like, 100 lightyears previous that. I really feel like I’ve simply acquired a deal with on it, and now you just apply and refine each day.

For me, loads of it was dropping the delight. Right? As entrepreneurs, and clearly I’m in combat sports, so we get prideful. We don’t need to fail. We don’t need to embarrass ourselves. But just with the ability to say, “Yeah, I screwed that one up, and that was my dangerous,” that was an enormous thing for me. It took me some time to only be okay with saying that.

Jaime Masters: Okay, so there’s so many things that you simply just stated that I need to spotlight. One, that it took 12 years to be a brown belt, and I don’t assume – in business, we would like it in three months. Three to 6 months is my trajectory to get better at this, proper? And for the individuals which might be white belts in leadership and are barely recognizing that right now – we used to joke at our dojo that the white belts have been probably the most dangerous, right? Because that they had no management, and also you’d get extra harm from a white belt than you’d from anyone that really knew what they have been doing, proper?

Matt Shoup: Yes.

Jaime Masters: And so I feel like business house owners are like that too, the place they’re like, “Oh, I’ve a workforce, and this is simply the best way I am,” they usually don’t even know what they don’t know, to allow them to cause chaos of their group with out even realizing it. What are some of these issues that they will do to do injury management and admit, I assume like you stated, eliminate that delight and admit that they could be doing one thing which may not be good?

Matt Shoup: Once I was at that degree in business, and I keep in mind being the crazy white belt in jujitsu hurting myself and others unintendedly – you simply don’t know. Having individuals in my life that have been capable of have a place to talk in my life say, “Matt, have you ever realized that you simply get actually pissed off actually shortly every time something doesn’t go your method?” I’m a High D, so, “You just steamroll individuals. You scare individuals.” I stated, “What do you imply? I was smiling. What are you speaking about?” They’re like, “No, you’re very intimidating and aggressive.”

Have anyone in your life that, whether or not they’re in your small business or not, that can just converse into that, that may give you that perspective as a result of if you get the enterprise blinders on, and also you solely know a method, and also you don’t know that there’s 10 totally different options, you just don’t know. So for me, it was having individuals tell me that, saying, “Hey, why don’t you attempt it this manner next time and see how it goes?”

Jaime Masters: There are usually not loads of occasions that individuals are prepared to say that to anyone who’s the boss, whether it’s internally or your spouse or husband. They’re like, “Oh, by the best way, you’re doing one thing utterly improper.” Constructive criticism is all the time an fascinating factor. However I say this to my shoppers so actually because they haven’t any consciousness of what they’re doing to their staff. There’s an excellent TED Speak that I’ll hyperlink up to, that in fact I can’t keep in mind the identify of, nevertheless it’s about not scaring your staff. But the exhausting thing is that lots of occasions they don’t even understand that they’re doing it. So when you realized that you simply have been like, “Oh, wow. Perhaps you’re proper,” what did you do to attempt to work on that?

Matt Shoup: Yeah, for me, it was first having that realization. I used to be so grateful when anyone advised me this. And I’ll share another story too about my jujitsu journey, however it was alongside that very same line. Truly, simply let me share it because it ties in rather well to the point. I received bullied growing up, so I obtained into weight training, thought that was gonna help me be huge and hard and powerful, after which I’ll have gotten beat up one night time, and I’ve been consuming alcohol when it happened, however I found out that jujitsu is gonna assist me defend myself, but I used to be this super aggressive – I mean, I’d just seize you and simply attempt to strangle you. There was no smoothness.

A few yr and a half ago, a guy that’s educated in jujitsu twice so long as I have, he pulled me aside and he stated, “Hey, Matt.” And he’s intimidating. I’m intimidated by him. He is an enormous, robust, scary guy. I had a back surgery a few yr and a half in the past because of injuries in jujitsu. And he stated, “Hey, Matt. Do you know that you simply’re the man that no one needs to roll with? No one will inform you that. Not solely are you the large, crazy –” – and this isn’t at white belt, blue belt; that is at excessive ranges – “Individuals don’t need to roll with you since you just attempt to homicide them on a regular basis.” He stated, “What wouldn’t it seem like in the event you rolled the entire opportunity means that you simply do?”

And I used to be so grateful – so the purpose I used to be getting at – that he pulled me aside and advised me that. He wasn’t intimidated to because the guy wouldn’t assume I might physically and then intellectually homicide me, but I was simply actually grateful for that, simply with the ability to do this. For me, having that perspective now that that window was open and I might see out it and thru it, it confirmed up. It showed up all over the place.
The leadership jujitsu that I speak about, it’s actually the leadership lessons that I’ve discovered on the mat grappling, they correspond to life. They correspond to business. They correspond to driving individuals in the direction of a standard aim. I stated, “Wow, thanks for telling me that.” Now I see it all the time. I see it show up. I see it once I begin to get too aggressive in enterprise or too assertive, and also you see individuals back up. Now I don’t have to be advised. I simply virtually am capable of tell myself.

Jaime Masters: After you have that awareness, you possibly can’t return, proper? You’re like, “Oh, no. I’m doing it once more.” Right? “Oh, jeez. I’m doing it once more.” And naturally that it’s the ordinary training of making an attempt to not. It’s so superb. Once I used to do jujitsu, we might do the exact same thing. We might hyperlink it to enterprise because everyone there was business house owners, so we’d later go off the mat and go, “What did you study in jujitsu in the present day which you could truly pull off the mat?” which was so superior and eye-opening as a result of it actually does relate ridiculously properly. What are a number of the other issues that have been really eye-opening that you simply discovered to do each?

Matt Shoup: With the jujitsu and the management, I feel that we try to seize after and go after skillsets that we simply don’t have. We overlook that everyone in enterprise, there’s all of the totally different sides or pieces of the pie of enterprise, gross sales, advertising, accounting, no matter it is, and everyone has that present, that genius degree thing that they do; they’re just wonderful at it as a result of they’re achieved it for 10,000 hours, however then additionally they just have that wired or born with, innate capability to only crush it at that. Use the assets you’ve, and use what you’re working with.

I practice my daughter. She’s eight years previous, and she or he’s a tiny – she’s small. She’s fiery and feisty, but I’m going, “Use your method. You’re not your brother’s measurement, so don’t attempt to be something that you simply’re not.” Don’t try to grasp at assets that you simply’re not naturally inclined to only possess, or it’s just not your skillset. I see in enterprise that we – I feel Gary Vaynerchuk says this, right? – triple down on what you’re good at, and don’t try to be anything that you simply’re not. It’s resourcefulness and using what you need to your benefit.

Jaime Masters: What’s so much more fascinating is if you see – like we used to train with this woman that was 13 and tiny, and she or he was so good. She would climb on prime of these massive guys and chokehold, they usually’re like – identical to a spider on their neck. They couldn’t get her off.

So such as you stated, it doesn’t matter the actual measurement or whatever you’re doing, so long as no matter you recognize to do, you go in deeper. I feel like we hear it so many occasions in The Massive Leap. It’s in so many other books, however I really feel like it’s simpler to see when it’s bodily on the mat going like, “Oh,” versus in your corporation on what you’re doing because I feel like there’s so many grey areas of what your strengths could possibly be and what you are able to do and the way many people that you’ve on your group as a result of typically you’ve acquired to do stuff that sucks too, right?

Matt Shoup: You do, yeah. There’s all the time the thought strategy of triple down and invest every part that you simply’re good at, and it’s gross sales and advertising. It’s like, you already know what? The other day I had to sit down, and as much as I hate it and will by no means adore it – it’s not my skillset – I needed to sit down and do some accounting with my accounting and ops individual. She is aware of I hate it, so she was making it as much less painful as is feasible for me. But yeah, you possibly can’t be the business owner that says, “Nicely, I’m –” You’ll be able to by no means be too good or too skilled in something else to not simply get down in the trenches.

We had one among our excessive degree government management guys yesterday, Rick, someway something obtained caught in the bathroom and clogged up the bathroom, and he replaced the bathroom. He replaced the bathroom right earlier than our leadership assembly. So just stuff like that; it brings the staff collectively when you possibly can see someone drop down from their high degree that they’re at and simply do one thing that’s so ground degree.

Jaime Masters: Properly, then they’re human once more as an alternative of on this pedestal and excellent and all that type of stuff. What when you have someone in your staff that’s not prepared to try this? They’re like, “That’s not part of my job description,” or whatever those excuses are on why they will’t do this stuff.

Matt Shoup: In the event you would have watched our present from 5 years in the past, my brief answer was like, “Just hearth them,” proper? There’s people who aren’t prepared to do it and by no means will probably be. Again, if the tradition that you simply’re creating is – like for us, we’re open, we’re clear. No one’s afraid to do what they need to do. We’re a group. We’re a family, and we’re gonna get this executed together. It stands out like such a sore thumb when any person has that sort of angle with us. They don’t final lengthy. So for me, I’m just a little extra direct. I see that immediately, and I’ll let someone go or say, “Hey, you need to go discover something else.” I do it slightly bit nicer now. I’ve found some other artistic ways to be just a little bit better about it.

Jaime Masters: Not so aggressive. “You’re fired!”

Matt Shoup: You need to just say, “Hey, this isn’t a great match. This isn’t how we roll, and I’m not gonna ask you to vary.” So I depart it of their arms. In the event you’re in a position and prepared to make some changes and this really matches who you’re, great; if not, there’s different corporations the place that’s not an necessary value over there, and I’d be completely happy to let you already know who those individuals are, and go check it out.

Jaime Masters: How are you going to inform, though, when it’s a gray area? That does make sense. That’s like, “You’re not even eager to be a part of the staff, so subsequently –” Right? However when it’s a grey space when any person’s perhaps actually making an attempt onerous and it’s identical to, “Oh.” What do you inform someone that’s in a grey space on how they will decide if it’s a very good fit culturally they usually want more coaching or they need extra of you, or you could be higher, versus you need to allow them to go?

Matt Shoup: Yeah, I’ve a saying. Once we’re interviewing and we’re recruiting and we’re working with someone, the first thing I do, we don’t have an interview. I sit down, or someone on the management workforce sits down, and simply has a espresso with them for an hour. On the finish of the meeting, the one thing that we’re on the lookout for – whether or not we inform you this or you already know it or not – is would we take pleasure in just spending time and having a coffee with you? I don’t care should you’re the top paint salesman in the country, and also you simply flew out here, and you can also make my firm $5 million, in the event you’re an ass – bleep that out if it is advisable to – but for those who’re just a jerk and I didn’t take pleasure in my time with you, then there actually is not any grey area on that.

We’ve obtained a group member – he’s truly stepping up inside the firm – and once we first met him, he knew absolutely nothing about portray, concerning the business. But a senior leadership workforce member stated, “Hey, this guy, Steven, he’s an outstanding man. He’s a fantastic guy.” Sat down, liked assembly with him. I’m like, “You understand what? I might hang out with that guy for years.” I really like him. I’ve gotten to know his family. He comes and trains in our jujitsu with us. We have now M&E lunch jujitsu on Thursdays.

However we came to a problem the other day where he was having some struggles with something that’s not a pure present, and we cope with conflict and clients which might be perhaps creating battle in several methods. He was capable of see that. I was capable of see his fashion, and it was actually cool. There wasn’t a gray area there as a result of he was a cultural fit. He was a individuals match. He simply wants more of a skillset. But I might all the time lean in the direction of, if it’s a technical talent that can be educated and discovered, I might slightly have the need for that than any person that’s not a superb fit. I do not know if that solutions the greyness of it.

Jaime Masters: It does, and I’ve so many more questions. The other factor is usually – you might have a very refined hiring process because you’ve been doing it for therefore lengthy, and someone whose skillset isn’t super great at hiring can trip and go, “Nicely, I want any person that knows this skillset now because I want them to start out, and I want them to go,” proper? And we make exceptions when things go, proper?

Matt Shoup: Yes.

Jaime Masters: As an alternative of actually making an attempt to – I know they all the time say sluggish to rent, but most individuals don’t really do this, in order that they get stuck with this piece. If they’re caught, they already have a staff right now, so they can’t simply refine – they need to refine their hiring course of proper now, but if they will’t they usually’ve received this gray space, they usually know that they suck type of as a pacesetter, so it might be them, or it could possibly be the skillset, or it might be a culture match, can you identify which one it’s?

Matt Shoup: Are you referring to the grey space with regard to say a staff member the place it’s just not quite clicking and hitting on all cylinders?

Jaime Masters: Yeah. Is it you? Is it them? Is it training?

Matt Shoup: Yeah, I feel it’s boiling it right down to what the difficulty is because in painting, like for us, we’re cyclical. We’re seasonal. In the peak of our busiest time, which is true about now, no one has 10 minutes to take a seat down and mirror on it, so I feel asking the best questions and boiling right down to what is the problem in one sentence?

I exploit this example with Steven. This guy’s been with us, and we had a very troublesome buyer, and he’s just giving me a tough time, and I’ve been doing this for years. He sat down and he checked out me and he stated – like, I know he’s a superb cultural match. I do know he’s acquired the technical paint coaching. What we have been coping with is how can we deal with and handle conflict when the individual on the opposite aspect of the battle could also be being unreasonable and solely seeing it their method? He just stated, “You’re actually good with individuals, and I need to discover ways to do this.”

I just stored asking him questions. “Where are you having issues with this specific state of affairs?” and it came right down to, “I say yes to every thing, and I can’t say no to individuals.” We overlaid that together with his character fashion and why. He’s a people-pleaser, and that’s simply how he is. We boiled it right down to what that main difficulty was, and now we’re addressing that. I stated, “Hey, I would like you to go out for the subsequent 30 days and tell individuals no only for enjoyable, just to see the way it feels and get out of your consolation zone, and see what that looks like,” and we’re engaged on it.

Jaime Masters: See, I really like that. That’s exactly what I was in search of because I really feel such as you’re truly serving to them with the private improvement aspect and investing in them as an alternative of going, “Ahh,” proper? Or, “I don’t even have time to train them.” It’s such as you truly get to know what their perception techniques are or what their points are. I know you’re an actual massive fan of assessments. Inform us somewhat bit extra. Do you assume everyone should take assessments? Which of them should we take? Give me a bit of bit extra information on that.

Matt Shoup: Yeah, I adore it. I’ve been very formally and educated pretty deeply in DISC and the human motivators index. Really when you take a look at social and behavioral psychology after which mathematical algorithm, they group together. You then’ve received DISC. You’re obtained Myers-Briggs. You’ve received what colour are you, what animal are you, what cheeseburger are you? There’s all these alternative ways to explain issues. There’s Enneagram. There’s strengths finders. I’d say whichever one you select – I feel they’re all great. They’re based mostly on the identical elementary thing. But whichever you’re gonna use, I’d say get actually educated on what that system and that mannequin appears like, and then simply go really deep with that.

We tried bouncing around and doing all of the totally different surveys and exams, no matter you name them, and I really like the DISC, and I’ve spent loads of time in it. I might undoubtedly, all through your recruiting and hiring process, just drop these in there. They’re really fun. They provide plenty of perception, even in case you don’t end up bringing that individual in your workforce.

Jaime Masters: I really recognize the extent of depth that you simply’re saying as a result of I feel as a result of it’s a quiz model, and we’re kind of within the quiz period, proper? Everyone’s taking quizzes for something. You simply assume that that one little sheet is every part. “Oh, okay. Nice. That’s it.” However even Kolbe index, every part can go into so many nuances, and you may study a lot about one another based mostly on that stuff that the little thing that you simply get on the free profile thing isn’t all the time sufficient. I respect that.

Matt Shoup: Absolutely.

Jaime Masters: So how lengthy did it take you to truly dive in and really study the DISC? I do know you’re licensed and all that enjoyable stuff.

Matt Shoup: The primary time I took a DISC profile is 2007, and I’m an enormous Dave Ramsey follower. I really like all his stuff. And we went to his EntreLeadership conference. He sent it out and stated, “Hey, take this.” I took it, acquired the outcomes again, and I’m studying this and it’s saying, “You’re very aggressive and really assertive, and some individuals will find you to typically be imply, and also you all the time must be right.” And I’m reading this like, “Oh, my gosh.” It was like all my dirty laundry and my deep, darkish secrets.

So I give it to Emily, my spouse, she reads it, and then she provides me hers because we did this together, and I’m laughing at it because I stated, “How the heck? I answered like 12 questions. How are you going to inform me so clearly about myself?” Since then, we might simply proceed to implement that. So the previous 12, 13 years, I’ve been paying to use these in my firm. Then about five years in the past, I went out and just went by means of a proper certification. Nevertheless it’s like anything. I’ve my real property license, right? Nothing on that certification that I’ve has something to do with actual property. It doesn’t make me a great, dangerous, or detached realtor. It means I handed a check.

Similar with that certification; I’ve the certificate, however I’ve been capable of spend a lot time with so many individuals from so many various backgrounds, and it simply comes right down to the info. There are 4 feelings that folks present once they behave, they usually combine and behave in a different way, and then there are seven core drivers of what influences these behaviors. I simply adore it.

Another thing, Jaime, I’d add is you requested what sort of surveys or what sort of things, and there’s not a formal survey for this, but once you sit down and meet with any person, no firm will ask this, and individuals are stunned once I ask this, but I just say, “What’s your imaginative and prescient? Why do you exist in one sentence? What’s your objective right here?” Most individuals can’t reply that, but you get them interested by that. What is your imaginative and prescient? Paint an image for what your life and family seems to be like. Inform me about your loved ones. Inform me about your hobbies.

There’s simply an excessive amount of of this, “What are you gonna do for me? What am I gonna pay you?” transactional enterprise taking place. I’ve received a few individuals celebrating their 10-year anniversaries this week. It’s been a decade feeding you and your wife and your three boys, and my other group member simply received married. They’ve a baby on the best way. That’s critical for me. It may possibly’t simply be all about business.

Jaime Masters: You truly care. Who knew? Everyone listening I’m assuming is a type of variety individuals. Nevertheless it’s humorous, taking a look at my mother – I’ve talked about my mother before. She was a secretary. She labored at a job. She hated it, like hated it, hated it, however it was due to the culture and the individuals. She’s still a secretary now. She loves her job. She thinks it’s one of the best factor in your complete world. And the truth that you are able to do the identical expertise but have a totally totally different view of a company is that caring. She knows she’s truly cared for.

Matt Shoup: Sure.

Jaime Masters: So how do you recommend, particularly as a really busy enterprise proprietor, how do you recommend we keep in mind learn how to speak to those individuals? So if you understand – you’ve had them take the DISC. You’re like, “Okay, I do know what sort they’re like, and I know I have to probably speak to them higher,” however I feel like it’s a communication factor where you’re like, “They understand all the things I’m saying utterly in a different way than I’m saying it,” right?

Matt Shoup: Yeah. In order that and the behavioral profiles, that’s gonna offer you a filter since you’re gonna view by means of your filter and your outcomes of your profile, after which this says, “Hey, take off your filter. Take a look at it by means of their filter,” so perhaps it’s essential to decelerate or be much less assertive or take extra time or present more details and details or have more fun, make them feel good. But one other factor that I feel even supersedes that – as a result of that’s the how and the what. That’s type of the road-mapping of easy methods to navigate a dialog with someone.

But greater picture is know what’s happening in their life. They’re eight:00 to 5:00-ing it with you, the normal work schedule, however what’s happening before the 8:00 and after the 5:00, right, with their spouse, with their friendships. Perhaps they’re going to high school. Perhaps that they had a sick mother or father. I have a group member who lost an in depth member of the family, one other one who’s obtained a sick member of the family. Just find out about those things. That’s how they’re gonna know that you simply care.

And in the event you don’t care about individuals and you’re in business for just your self, then I’d say go be a solo entrepreneur, a solopreneur, and do it all about yourself. You’re still gonna interact with individuals, however get out of business for those who don’t care about individuals can be a suggestion.

Jaime Masters: Tweetable, yeah. “Get out of enterprise.” No. However how have you learnt where the line is? There are boundary strains of going, “Hey, how much does the owner truly share about their personal life, however how much can we truly let the opposite individual share?” Because in case you develop into a trusted confidante, have you learnt what I mean? It begins to blur the strains somewhat bit too.

Matt Shoup: It does. I truly simply despatched – and I’m sending my management staff by means of a process referred to as a life plan process. It’s a 2-day, facilitated engagement the place they actually paint their life out on paper. I’ve gone via it. I used to be truly contemplating getting certified to do it and I’m going, “There’d be a conflict of curiosity there. That’s an excessive amount of info.” I let share as a lot as they’d wish to share. I’ve some group members; they’re calling me day by day spilling their beans and their emotions. That’s just how they are. And then some, they’re a bit of bit more reserved, they usually’ll only get so close. I feel it matters.

So for me, because the chief, I all the time say it’s as much as me to set what that culture is. I’m very open with my workforce about what I’ve acquired happening, and then there are some things the place I say, “That is none of your small business.” “Matt, you seem like you’re fairly annoyed with something.” And I’m going, “Yep.” “Need to speak about it?” “Nope, it’s simply none of your small business proper now,” they usually know that, and we now have that means to interact deep if we’d like, however then also these boundaries to say, “No, we’re not gonna go there.” It’s totally different within all corporations. I’ve obtained an enormous spectrum of staff members where some share far more than others, and that’s okay. It’s all great.

Jaime Masters: I really like that you simply say, “It’s all nice,” as an alternative of – because different occasions it’s like, “Oh, my gosh, now I do know the whole lot about that.” After which it becomes a drama fest, and that’s totally different. Corporations can get right down to that point too, particularly when individuals are speaking about private stuff all the time. Does that happen with you guys or no?

Matt Shoup: Yeah, you’ve acquired to be really careful with that as a result of it may turn right into a drama fest. As any person’s sharing whatever they’re sharing with me, the filter that I’m all the time seeing issues by means of – for me, it comes down to only a few sentences – I discover, and I chase down, and I recruit and appeal to actually superb those that I’d like to spend time with, after which I focus time, cash, power, consideration in making their life higher.

I would like – regardless of the engagement is, in the event that they’re having a problem with their partner – as a result of I’ve seen it go off the rails. We had something go off the rails a bit of bit ago, and that was an awesome lesson as a result of the engagement ended up being less about, “How are you going to be better from this challenge that you simply’re having?” and it was perhaps performing some speaking about any person that wasn’t there once they weren’t current. You’ve received to know, “What is the meant end result of this engagement with anyone?” For me, anyone comes to me with regardless of the challenge, “Cool, let’s sit down and take a while. What makes you better at the finish of this dialog and engagement?”

In consequence, once you make someone’s life better and also you encourage them and also you cause them to being a greater version of themselves, they usually have the skillset in sales, advertising, accounting, then your enterprise simply is rising the tide of their life. Rising that boat of their life is gonna deliver your small business up as nicely. However you must control because it will possibly go off the rails quick in case you let it.

Jaime Masters: Proper, you’ll want to have like a radar of when any person says another person’s identify, like are we talking about them or? Proper? Because typically it may get misconstrued in conversations anyway, being like, “Oh, that was an opinion,” or, “Oh, that was info,” right? After which it begins to stew from there.

Matt Shoup: Absolutely, yeah.

Jaime Masters: Yeah. How do you cope with employee critiques? Do you set plenty of the private stuff in what they have in your worker critiques, and what does that seem like?

Matt Shoup: Yeah, any of my group members would inform you, if they have been sitting right here watching this, they’d understand how I’m gonna reply because I am absolutely horrible at persistently scheduling. Like the normal quarterly evaluate, and I score 18 things; I don’t do this. We tried that one yr, and it’s just not me.

Jaime Masters: Thanks for saying that, by the best way. Simply because everyone’s like, “Oh, that’s what we’re presupposed to do,” so thank you.

Matt Shoup: I keep in mind an HR supervisor. She’s moved on. She moved out of state. However she would pressure me to do it with nice intentions, and I’m going, “I’m just not wired to try this.” And she or he goes, “Nicely, how are you gonna work out if someone deserves a increase, and what does this appear to be?” And I just, more for me as a result of it’s just how I am and I’m wired at a gut instinctual degree, I just really feel when any person’s prepared for a increase.

And I know, like I stated, Steven, we talked about him. Nice man. I know what he’s working on proper now, so each engagement I’ve, how are we building him up in that? Kevin, I know what he’s engaged on, so similar thing. However they’re really sporadic. I drive plenty of HR professionals which might be making an attempt to rein that in. I drive them nuts because I have no rhyme, cause, technique, but I might also say that for those who requested any of my workforce members right now, I don’t assume any of them would say, “Man, I’m due for a increase, and Matt doesn’t have a ping on that part of the enterprise.”

Jaime Masters: How do you work on worker improvement then also and how much you converse with them, meetings-wise? Because in the event you’re like, “Oh, they will type of ping me each time, and we will just be talking about their private improvement on a regular basis,” how are they only not going into the private improvement, enjoyable, awesome, making an attempt to get higher at issues, and also you not likely know where the gap is, or if they’ve closed that hole, or in the event that they’re just going additional somewhere that you simply don’t assume that that’s essential, proper, so far as the enterprise time and the hours go?

Matt Shoup: Yeah. What we do as soon as every week – and I feel this is really essential in any enterprise any measurement; if it’s you and your partner, and you’re operating the enterprise, otherwise you and your dog, have a weekly meeting together with your dog. We’ve got a leadership meeting. It’s each Tuesday.

Anyone that’s in northern Colorado, when you ever need to drop in, it’s open invite for different entrepreneurs – Tuesday, 2:00 p.m. in our management jujitsu meetings. We get together as a company. We do a very structured verify in. “What is a one-word barometer of simply how you’re doing as we speak?” That sets the tone. Okay, we’ve obtained a bunch of individuals which are both tired, inspired, pissed off, worn out, and it’s totally different, so you must gauge that. Then we ask, “What was your largest lesson that you simply discovered final week? How are you higher this week over final week, and what is your largest challenge that you simply’re at present dealing with?”

We put it all down on paper, and then from there, we pull – we go, “Hey, six of us are really coping with how you can cope with constructive communication throughout conflict,” so then the subsequent week we’ll practice. We do a few 30-minute verify in. We evaluation our metrics and our stats, and then our last 45 minutes to an hour, both me or one of many different workforce members, we’re educating on leadership. That’s gonna cover the leadership and the private improvement, however then any person on the gross sales group might say, “Hey, our ratios are dropping,” and then we flip that into gross sales coaching and more technical coaching.

I feel the brief reply is you need to forged the line out and see what you’re pulling in from the workforce and see where they need the work.

Jaime Masters: Wow, so it’s ongoing employee improvement, kind of a forwards and backwards continually so you possibly can kind of navigate the ship somewhat easier. That’s superior.

Matt Shoup: Yeah. And once I get within the weeds, Jaime, I inform you. Like I’m within the weeds on – I’m speaking about this example with a shopper. I knew I shouldn’t have jumped in, but the business needed it and I did, and now I’m down in the weeds, and I hate that part of the enterprise. But I do know where the value is for me. It’s making everyone better at life and leadership and helping them overcome these obstacles and challenges.

I don’t ignore the technical training, but once I make a salesman’s life better, they usually can take a lesson that they will apply to their household, to friendships, no matter, they only happen to sell extra. I don’t assume it’s an accident. I’m not investing lots of time. A life plan shouldn’t be sales coaching. A life plan is, “Why do you exist in a single sentence, and take a look at your life on paper, and what are the chapters of your life, and what are your value units?” and all of this stuff. Then they happen to promote more or happen to manage or produce extra. It’s fun.

Jaime Masters: Yeah. It’s so humorous though as a result of everyone’s like – I hear from plenty of entrepreneurs, they usually’re like, “Properly, we’ve to offer them direct training for what they want,” and when you go, “A life plan. Properly, wait, that’s serving to them of their life. What in the event that they depart?” Like we have now all these unfavourable ideas of all the items, proper? “I simply spent $5,00Zero.00 for my workforce to do that thing, and now they’re gonna depart after,” or no matter those pieces are. How do you mitigate that? Or do you trust your group just a lot that it’s not an enormous deal either method?

Matt Shoup: No, I really like that you simply ask it because it sits right here and it gets my inner worry dialogue going, and I feel it’s abundance versus worry based mostly, right? It’s the primary query you asked, and what we’re talking about is, hey, pour into individuals and make their lives better, and then there’s all this greatness for them. Okay, what if they outgrow you? Yeah, you dropped $four,000.00 on a life plan, after which they come back and say, “You realize what? I did my life plan, and right here’s why I exist, and it’s to not develop into a undertaking supervisor or proceed to be one together with your firm.”?

So the primary one I did, the primary staff member that went on it, that’s what he came upon. I used to be in Spain the final two weeks. I did a 70-mile hike of the Camino in Spain. I received finished like on my third day, and I knew he was finishing. I stated, “Why do you exist in a single sentence? What did you’re taking out of this?” and he informed me, and I stated, “That’s superior. I knew that.” And he goes, “Yeah, and it doesn’t seem like being here at M&E is gonna be a match,” and I stated, “Cool. We knew that.” But again, that worry begins speaking. It’s like, “Shoot, what if the second individual does that?”

Jaime Masters: Proper?

Matt Shoup: And then I’m the solo entrepreneur, the solopreneur, subsequent time we interview together. It’s trusting that it’s all gonna work out. Do you need to maintain someone round out of worry that they’re gonna depart and know that they’re not likely dwelling their function together with your company? I can’t go to mattress at night time figuring out that Rick – like we’ll brazenly share. His identify is Rick. He’s an outstanding man. He’s turn into a fantastic pal. His function is to do greater issues, and he’s obtained an outstanding story that folks have to right here. Yeah, and I’m excited for that. Now I technically take a look at it and go, “Crap, I’ve acquired to discover a challenge manager that’s just as awesome as him,” and people are massive footwear to fill, however it’s okay. It’s great. I’m joyful for him. I actually am.

Jaime Masters: It’s apply in letting go as an entrepreneur also and not holding so tight to the reins. Whenever you got here the last time, I had Kendra, who was my proper hand, who’s implausible. She’s coming over to go swimming next week truly. She began her own agency. On the time, I used to be like, “Okay.” It’s actually robust, particularly educating individuals enterprise and anyone in my enterprise will get to understand how a lot money everyone’s making and what they’re doing.

Matt Shoup: Sure.

Jaime Masters: And so when you consider the trail of the place you need, you’d never need to maintain an individual back from what they actually need to do in life. And now Leilani is my proper hand, and she or he’s freaking superb too. Like with the ability to kind of venture into the longer term and simply know that ultimately I’m gonna find any person who fills the footwear and I feel actually good about additionally is helpful to get out of this as a result of everyone does the spin. I beloved how you went, “Oh, and then solopreneur,” right? It’s like from the very, very prime all the best way to the underside.

Matt Shoup: It is crazy. There’s a lot of this. I really like learning just how the mind works and the way we reply to things and how we’ve been wired from our story to have just patterns of where we go. So stress happens. Okay, shoot. Rick’s leaving; next individual up. He may be too, right? Then the third individual up; they could be too. I’ve received seven of these, they usually all may be leaving. And you do, you get that one thought, and it just starts taking you down. I know what these triggers are for me.

We’re sitting here having enjoyable on a podcast, however I’ll straight up inform you, yeah, there’s a deep worry and that voice that comes in and it’s like, “Actually, you need to enhance individuals’s life and pour into individuals? That’s your M&E Painting theme for the yr, right? Pour into individuals. We made t-shirts. Actually? You need to do this, Matt? Or do you simply need to close some business and make some money? All of your group’s gonna go.” It’s a must to understand how distinguish these voices and the place they’re coming from.

To not get too deep, but everyone, when that unfavorable crap just starts flooding in and floating in, there’s in all probability some a part of your life and your story the place there’s one thing where that stems from and that basically sticks. I know what that is for me. Homosexual talked about in his ebook, these things where you virtually sabotage yourself since you don’t need to outshine someone, or you don’t feel you deserve it. You must know the abundance voice and the shortage and the worry voice and solely pay attention to at least one. We don’t do it perfectly. I don’t do it completely day by day.

Jaime Masters: Thank you for saying that. We speak about this so much on this show, about your brain because, no offense, you possibly can pop anyone else that’s executed this one million occasions earlier than and any person’s enterprise and go, “Oh, they will do such a better job because they don’t have the blocks or the unfavorable considering,” or the whatever it is. It’s so inner, and but we will’t be good both. Our brain is making an attempt to maintain us protected. So what I acquired from what you have been saying is figuring out yourself and doing that private improvement on your self makes it so that method you’ll be able to truly begin to distinguish what is you and on your larger good versus random crap that you simply get to spin down, proper?

Matt Shoup: No, and figuring out, like for me, I all the time ask anyone once I do leadership coaching, I say, “Hey, when the world occurs, when the tornado of enterprise and life and just the craziness happens, I do what or I feel what? Where do I are likely to go to?” For me, when stuff will get crazy, I grab on and I’m like, “You realize what? I’m gonna maintain onto this. I’m gonna management this.” It’s that control and watch out, and I’m just gonna steamroll things. And I know that I can’t. That’s the worst thing I must be doing in a time like that, but I know that’s where I’m gonna go. I get pissed, and I get indignant.

So when others see that in me – and I’ve asked individuals, “Hey, should you see me starting to get somewhat edgy or touchy, please, let me know,” as a result of I do know where that comes from, and I do know what that finally ends up resulting in, and it’s nothing good. It’s nothing constructive or constructive, empowering, or growth-oriented for your small business or your life.

Jaime Masters: And it’s ordinary although, so it’s method more durable to get off that practice that’s already shifting. You’re like, “No, that’s my pattern. I’m so used to taking place this path,” so having individuals be capable of name you out on the notice aspect is large as a result of typically we don’t even understand we’re taking place that path until we’re already there and going – I do the same thing. I’m like, “Oh, I’m confused. Hmm, I assume you’re proper. I didn’t actually concentrate beforehand, however huh, I’m like this,” so that – you realize what I mean? Prefer it’s so more durable in the bottle.

Matt Shoup: It is, and I simply – so I feel you recognize, and we’ve talked about this, but I lived in Spain in school, and Spain’s just turn into an enormous ardour of mine, and I simply crossed off a bucket listing merchandise. I hiked the Camino de Santiago. It’s like a 500-mile hike across northern Spain. I did the final 100 km, 115 km, about 72 miles. However you’re strolling on this thing, and I’m getting perspective. This has been around for hundreds of years. Individuals have hiked this path and this trail, and it’s clearly marked. You’d have to actually not be taking note of get lost. It’s very clearly delineated.

However I feel it’s simply with our mind and our habits and our patterns and the way we react and respond to issues, that’s – I’m 37, so for 37 years or from each time I was acutely aware of it, I’ve laid this pattern and when one thing occurs, growth, you fall proper off onto that trail. So what does it appear to be? I used to be wanting in this huge area. I’m going, “What if I hiked over this manner? There’s no path. That is new grass that you simply’re packing down.”

It’s like something. It’s exhausting to unlearn habits and break patterns. However once you realize what it’s and you may at the very least determine it, you then’re acutely aware of it if you’re in it. It’s harmful once you don’t even know, like if you don’t know and you simply go there and also you’re like, “What do you imply? What’s your drawback? This isn’t me, this is you.” It’s like, “No, it’s you. It’s me.”

Jaime Masters: We’ve had one thing like that. I really like how you talked concerning the 12 years of small steps and small steps. One of many issues we did on my private mastermind group is we had a talk behind your back time. Pat Flynn and Shawn Stevenson, everyone might speak about me and my patterns once I wasn’t there. It was so good, and also you want a glass of wine to truly take heed to it.

Matt Shoup: And you then come back and take heed to it?

Jaime Masters: Yeah, you take heed to it.

Matt Shoup: Okay.

Jaime Masters: Yeah, in order that they’re allowed to share utterly brazenly, and it was so helpful because I know a number of the patterns that I do anyway, however they see them so much more blatantly, they usually have been fairly callous in calling it out, in an exquisite method. I imply, we will take constructive criticism. We’ve been together for nine years. But what’s so superb is how simplistic it was to them and how like over difficult as all heck all my problems are to me, proper?

Matt Shoup: Yes. Yeah, and two issues that pop into my thoughts as you speak about that’s once you’re in an surroundings where you understand that there’s love – like I’m not saying this about Jaime or to Jaime or nevertheless we’re doing it as a result of I have a vendetta or I need to get you kicked out of the group. It’s like I really like you, like I actually need your life to be higher; that makes it so much simpler.

And then the opposite factor too, it’s really easy. For us, it’s very easy. Positive, I can see Jaime’s patterns and Kevin’s and whoever’s, but I can’t see my very own. After which once they tell me, it’s like, “How dare you tell me?” It’s really easy to see it in everyone else, however we simply can’t get out of our personal method and our personal dialogue loads of the occasions, so it’s great to have individuals in enterprise that can do this with you.

Jaime Masters: Properly, and the way have you learnt? So that you stated a pair occasions where individuals really introduced awareness to you. How have you learnt when it’s for not the larger good versus the larger good? Have you learnt what I mean? Have you ever ever gotten individuals where they’re like, “Oh, I just needed to let you realize,” they usually do it nicely, proper? “I simply needed to let you realize blah, blah, blah,” and you’re like, “Where is that coming from?” So how do you tell the difference between real true assist from someone versus not?

Matt Shoup: For me, just because I’m more instinctual, and I just really feel it at a core degree, I simply feel like most of the time, until I’m blinded by one thing and it’s an enormous thing, I can just really feel that and know. When anyone has good intentions, it becomes a simple conversation. But once I’m sitting right here and I’m listening to this, I’m going, “Okay, what does this individual need out of telling me this?” I’ve rotated many occasions and just stated, “Okay, nice. Thanks for telling me that I just steamrolled anyone,” or no matter it was – informed me my stuff that I’m engaged on. “Why are you telling me that?” After which once they can clearly, clearly answer that.

Like I had a staff member inform me something. He noticed an interaction I had with my son. This was an enormous factor. I keep in mind this. He pulled me apart and he was like, “Man, I saw the best way that you simply – you in all probability didn’t even think about as a result of it’s just how you’re, but I noticed how he reacted to the best way that you simply responded and reacted to him,” and he goes, “Just needed to let you already know.” And he stated, “I’m telling you this as a result of I’m a dad,” after which he went on to say, “And I understand how my dad communicated to me and the scars that may depart on a bit of kid’s coronary heart.”

And I was like, “Holy cow.” Like, “Dude, I assumed we have been operating a painting enterprise,” right? And we’re having these conversations. I knew that was pure and good intentions. But when it’s identical to, “Hey,” the tone, right? We’ve had additionally the chatty Cathies or the gossipy whoevers, and you may simply feel it. Once more, I left that dialog and that engagement relating to how I interacted with my son feeling better and, “Wow, I just discovered one thing, and this is how we will make issues better.” However once you depart and also you’re like – you just really feel like crap, and there was actually no objective achieved, that’s once I would start to question that individual’s intentions.

Jaime Masters: Wow, yeah.

Matt Shoup: But I’ll also say that individual, should you go take a look at that, that could be that not good fit in the company, and we’ve had these before, and you need to tackle them.

Jaime Masters: Go you for being so open to listen to that from anyone although too as a result of that takes loads of openness also as a result of, I mean, particularly as a father or mother and making an attempt to be the perfect mother or father you’ll be able to, which I do know you’re, you can have gotten defensive and like, “I didn’t imply it like that.” You recognize what I imply? So go you for being so open and receptive to have the ability to hear it.

Matt Shoup: However once more, we get our blinders on, and we don’t even understand that we’re doing it. Again, I’m like, “I didn’t even understand, and also you noticed that via your filter and your perspective and your story, and it helped me make mine better, so thanks a bunch.”

Jaime Masters: That’s awesome. I know we’ve got to start out wrapping up, but you recognize I might chat with you perpetually as a result of I feel we received on a call the opposite day and it was like, “Oh, it’s been an hour. Perhaps you actually ought to come back on the present. I didn’t understand it hadn’t happened earlier than.”

Matt Shoup: It didn’t happen. We’ll do Spherical three. We did Spherical 2; we’ll do Round three. It’s good, yeah.

Jaime Masters: Because I already thought we did, so yes, we’ll completely do it once more. I’m gonna ask the last query. So what’s one action listeners can take this week to help move them forward in the direction of their objective of one million?

Matt Shoup: It’s $1.00 at a time, one step at a time. I’m coming off a trip, I took 200,000 steps over I feel six days, and I assumed my knees have been gonna explode. There have been occasions once I stated – right, so wherever you’re in life and your small business quest and your private quest and your millionaire quest, it’s one step. It’s $1.00 at a time. And don’t examine yourself to others. It’s your journey. You’re taking it, and simply don’t stop. You may get setback, and that’s okay. Only one step at a time is all I can say.

Jaime Masters: I really like that. So the place can we discover out extra about you? I know you could have assets and all that fun stuff.

Matt Shoup: Yeah.

Jaime Masters: Where do they connect?

Matt Shoup: Yeah. Simply go to the website. I’ve received a free little all my enterprise ideas and tips and assets and issues I’ve discovered during the last couple of many years of business. I ship these out to you, and I really like to connect. I really like meeting individuals.

Jaime Masters: And we will certainly hyperlink to it, however I’m gonna spell your last identify because I did not know find out how to spell it for a long time. Truly, you go forward. You’re good at it. You’ve completed this a long time.

Matt Shoup: Nicely, thank you. You say it appropriately; 99% of people say “shoop,” then they sing the Salt-N-Pepa track.

Jaime Masters: I really like that. That’s my karaoke track.

Matt Shoup: That was in highschool. I’ve received weird nicknames. We’ll speak about that next time. But no, it’s Matt, M-A-T-T

Jaime Masters: I’m quite positive the only cause why I say it appropriately is as a result of I stated it incorrectly at first and then asked you because I ask everyone find out how to truly say it. Good thing I have this show. I can ask you simply.

Matt Shoup: Like it.

Jaime Masters: Thank you a lot for approaching the show at this time. I so respect it.

Matt Shoup: Thanks for having me. It’s all the time enjoyable to hang with you.

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